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	<title>Comments on: The Blue Collar Recession</title>
	<atom:link href="http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/</link>
	<description>Everything That&#039;s Wrong With You And Your Money</description>
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		<title>By: Hope to Prosper</title>
		<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-3262</link>
		<dc:creator>Hope to Prosper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weakonomics.com/?p=3378#comment-3262</guid>
		<description>Great post Weakonomist.

My opinion is, this isn&#039;t just a blue-collar recession, it&#039;s a permanent shift in our economy.  And, many of the blue-collar jobs that have been lost will never return.  I&#039;m not a doomsday prophet and I do think our economy is starting recover.  Unfortunately, it’s going to recover much better in Silicon Valley and on Wall Street, than it is in Ohio and Michigan.

The reasons are very simple and obvious (to everyone but our Government).

First, globalization has already occurred and this is a big problem for America.  You can&#039;t manufacture $3 Black Friday kitchen appliances in Ohio, but you can make them in China.  I used to work in Technical Support, but now those job are in India.

Second, unions, labor and the government are all going to have to get real, if we are going to save any manufacturing jobs.  The 1950s are over and so are pensions, triple-time, strikes and costly regulations.  GM and Chrysler need to figure this out before everyone is driving a Hyundai.  (BTW, I drive American cars and I used to work union.)

Third, we are switching to a knowledge economy, which provides great opportunities for Accountants and Engineers, but not for factory workers and general laborers.  And, this leaves out a big part of the American population, who is not well educated.

Long story short, the divide between the haves and the have-nots will continue to grow.  And, the people who are unskilled and uneducated will be stuck with McJobs.  This is unfortunate, but it is the new reality of the American dream.
.-= Hope to Prosper&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/HopeToProsper/~3/bPgGYW6-ThA/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Overdraft is Over&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Weakonomist.</p>
<p>My opinion is, this isn&#8217;t just a blue-collar recession, it&#8217;s a permanent shift in our economy.  And, many of the blue-collar jobs that have been lost will never return.  I&#8217;m not a doomsday prophet and I do think our economy is starting recover.  Unfortunately, it’s going to recover much better in Silicon Valley and on Wall Street, than it is in Ohio and Michigan.</p>
<p>The reasons are very simple and obvious (to everyone but our Government).</p>
<p>First, globalization has already occurred and this is a big problem for America.  You can&#8217;t manufacture $3 Black Friday kitchen appliances in Ohio, but you can make them in China.  I used to work in Technical Support, but now those job are in India.</p>
<p>Second, unions, labor and the government are all going to have to get real, if we are going to save any manufacturing jobs.  The 1950s are over and so are pensions, triple-time, strikes and costly regulations.  GM and Chrysler need to figure this out before everyone is driving a Hyundai.  (BTW, I drive American cars and I used to work union.)</p>
<p>Third, we are switching to a knowledge economy, which provides great opportunities for Accountants and Engineers, but not for factory workers and general laborers.  And, this leaves out a big part of the American population, who is not well educated.</p>
<p>Long story short, the divide between the haves and the have-nots will continue to grow.  And, the people who are unskilled and uneducated will be stuck with McJobs.  This is unfortunate, but it is the new reality of the American dream.<br />
.-= Hope to Prosper&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/HopeToProsper/~3/bPgGYW6-ThA/" rel="nofollow">Overdraft is Over</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Financial Samurai</title>
		<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-3259</link>
		<dc:creator>Financial Samurai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weakonomics.com/?p=3378#comment-3259</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s true, we really are in a bull market.  We don&#039;t have $700,000 compensation/employee at Goldman if we aren&#039;t in a bull market.  

It&#039;s great that we&#039;re back, and the stock market, and busy streets and restaurants reflect the good times!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s true, we really are in a bull market.  We don&#8217;t have $700,000 compensation/employee at Goldman if we aren&#8217;t in a bull market.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s great that we&#8217;re back, and the stock market, and busy streets and restaurants reflect the good times!</p>
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		<title>By: the weakonomist</title>
		<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-3256</link>
		<dc:creator>the weakonomist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weakonomics.com/?p=3378#comment-3256</guid>
		<description>Frank, always great to hear from you.  I&#039;m with you in thinking that this recession may not be different than any other.  Most of us have just never seen how great the divide is between races and education levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank, always great to hear from you.  I&#8217;m with you in thinking that this recession may not be different than any other.  Most of us have just never seen how great the divide is between races and education levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-3254</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weakonomics.com/?p=3378#comment-3254</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been out  of work for a while now, long enough for it to start looking more like an involuntary early retirement. I&#039;ve noticed the malls being crowded, more crowded than they were six or twleve months ago, I think. At first I thought this is a good thing -- look at all these people with jobs -- then it occurred to me that I was at the mall spending money too.

It&#039;s possible that the lack of tangible recession we see in our malls-and-restaurants strata is because above a certain economic level, a layoff doesn&#039;t result in fewer trips to the mall.

And I don&#039;t see evidence that this recession is a particularly blue collar. Sure, the folks that work for a living are worse off, but is this any different than any other recession?
.-= Frank Curmudgeon&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BadMoneyAdvice/~3/Rd0u-MXTzwQ/forex-for-everybody.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Forex for Everybody?&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been out  of work for a while now, long enough for it to start looking more like an involuntary early retirement. I&#8217;ve noticed the malls being crowded, more crowded than they were six or twleve months ago, I think. At first I thought this is a good thing &#8212; look at all these people with jobs &#8212; then it occurred to me that I was at the mall spending money too.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s possible that the lack of tangible recession we see in our malls-and-restaurants strata is because above a certain economic level, a layoff doesn&#8217;t result in fewer trips to the mall.</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t see evidence that this recession is a particularly blue collar. Sure, the folks that work for a living are worse off, but is this any different than any other recession?<br />
.-= Frank Curmudgeon&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BadMoneyAdvice/~3/Rd0u-MXTzwQ/forex-for-everybody.html" rel="nofollow">Forex for Everybody?</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Bo Tanical</title>
		<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-3252</link>
		<dc:creator>Bo Tanical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weakonomics.com/?p=3378#comment-3252</guid>
		<description>If I might, I&#039;d like to  suggest that the following graphic shows the true gravity of our transit across the economic time domain. Its an interactive progression of the job losses, showing unemployment by county since 2007 on a nationwide map. Its truly frightening to see what our news media tries so hard to bury. If you think trends are important, I&#039;d like to get your opinion on what this one means.

http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html

Just press the arrow on the map and watch the tragedy of our times unfold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I might, I&#8217;d like to  suggest that the following graphic shows the true gravity of our transit across the economic time domain. Its an interactive progression of the job losses, showing unemployment by county since 2007 on a nationwide map. Its truly frightening to see what our news media tries so hard to bury. If you think trends are important, I&#8217;d like to get your opinion on what this one means.</p>
<p><a href="http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html" rel="nofollow">http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html</a></p>
<p>Just press the arrow on the map and watch the tragedy of our times unfold.</p>
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		<title>By: the weakonomist</title>
		<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-3251</link>
		<dc:creator>the weakonomist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weakonomics.com/?p=3378#comment-3251</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good quote often attributed to Reagan, though it isn&#039;t his.  The quote doesn&#039;t really sum up what I was trying to say though.  Also, the method in which unemployment is measured is irrelevant, only the trend is important so long as the measurement is consistent.  Whether you measure it from the BLS or some other agency or thinktank doesn&#039;t matter, they will all break down in a similar fashion demographically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good quote often attributed to Reagan, though it isn&#8217;t his.  The quote doesn&#8217;t really sum up what I was trying to say though.  Also, the method in which unemployment is measured is irrelevant, only the trend is important so long as the measurement is consistent.  Whether you measure it from the BLS or some other agency or thinktank doesn&#8217;t matter, they will all break down in a similar fashion demographically.</p>
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		<title>By: Bo Tanical</title>
		<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-3250</link>
		<dc:creator>Bo Tanical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weakonomics.com/?p=3378#comment-3250</guid>
		<description>I think your powers of perception and deduction are somewhat limited. You are trying to understand a river by looking at a raindrop. If our economy is  the method  by which we trade goods and services and we  all use goods and services, then anything that effects the economy, by definition affects us all.  

Like a garden in a drought, all the plants don&#039;t die at once, the weaker and the  more water sensitive die first, the tougher drought resistant plants live longer but don&#039;t thrive, even the trees with their deep and widespread root structures will eventually die without water. 

In a depression which is what we are quickly becoming, those who  made bad choices, false assumptions, were unlucky or just damned by the fates, fall first. As the economic collapse continues more will find themselves participating in the depression/recession/crisis despite the color of their collar or their education level. We are nearing 20 percent unemployment using U6 as a measure, when one in 5 people are out  of work and the housing bubble is still collapsing, then soon the tide will wash over us all. 

Your observations have been long known and usually stated as: &quot; a recession is when my neighbor is out of a job, a depression is when I&#039;m out  of  a job&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your powers of perception and deduction are somewhat limited. You are trying to understand a river by looking at a raindrop. If our economy is  the method  by which we trade goods and services and we  all use goods and services, then anything that effects the economy, by definition affects us all.  </p>
<p>Like a garden in a drought, all the plants don&#8217;t die at once, the weaker and the  more water sensitive die first, the tougher drought resistant plants live longer but don&#8217;t thrive, even the trees with their deep and widespread root structures will eventually die without water. </p>
<p>In a depression which is what we are quickly becoming, those who  made bad choices, false assumptions, were unlucky or just damned by the fates, fall first. As the economic collapse continues more will find themselves participating in the depression/recession/crisis despite the color of their collar or their education level. We are nearing 20 percent unemployment using U6 as a measure, when one in 5 people are out  of work and the housing bubble is still collapsing, then soon the tide will wash over us all. </p>
<p>Your observations have been long known and usually stated as: &#8221; a recession is when my neighbor is out of a job, a depression is when I&#8217;m out  of  a job&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: glixon66</title>
		<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-3248</link>
		<dc:creator>glixon66</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weakonomics.com/?p=3378#comment-3248</guid>
		<description>While I agree with your analysis and conclusion, I do so to a degree.  I too haven&#039;t seen much change in the number of people shopping or storefronts closed or reduced consumption.  But maybe that is because I live and work in a college town where housing prices have either depreciated little or not at all and 65% of the population has a 4-year degree at the least.  I think location, be it on a city, state or regional basis needs to be taken into account when you ask this question of your surroundings and the image of a battered economy.  If I were living in Detroit or some other places hard hit (California, Nevada?), I might see the &quot;real&quot; economic impact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with your analysis and conclusion, I do so to a degree.  I too haven&#8217;t seen much change in the number of people shopping or storefronts closed or reduced consumption.  But maybe that is because I live and work in a college town where housing prices have either depreciated little or not at all and 65% of the population has a 4-year degree at the least.  I think location, be it on a city, state or regional basis needs to be taken into account when you ask this question of your surroundings and the image of a battered economy.  If I were living in Detroit or some other places hard hit (California, Nevada?), I might see the &#8220;real&#8221; economic impact.</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-3247</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weakonomics.com/?p=3378#comment-3247</guid>
		<description>In another vein of &quot;we&#039;re all in this together&quot; KC, I&#039;m not looking forward to the societal repercussions if so many people have the rug pulled out from under them if the unemployment payments are stopped. 

There are six applicants for every job opening in the state where I live. There are going to be a lot more people getting on welfare assistance and section 8 housing, more homeless people, more desperate people, and possibly more people turning to theft to get income. It&#039;s going to put a strain on other state and local resources such as welfare, WIC, medicaid, homeless shelters and the police department.

This recession has already created some &quot;bad&quot; neighborhoods in places where there are several foreclosures on a block, boarded up, sprayed with graffiti and tags, being broken into and used by squatters, drug dealers or gangs. Nobody wants to move to a neighborhood with some gang signs spray painted on the boarded up house down the street. So that neighborhood basically is given up on. It starts to add up to a lot of neighborhoods, and whole communities. Anybody still living there can&#039;t get out; nobody wants to buy their house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In another vein of &#8220;we&#8217;re all in this together&#8221; KC, I&#8217;m not looking forward to the societal repercussions if so many people have the rug pulled out from under them if the unemployment payments are stopped. </p>
<p>There are six applicants for every job opening in the state where I live. There are going to be a lot more people getting on welfare assistance and section 8 housing, more homeless people, more desperate people, and possibly more people turning to theft to get income. It&#8217;s going to put a strain on other state and local resources such as welfare, WIC, medicaid, homeless shelters and the police department.</p>
<p>This recession has already created some &#8220;bad&#8221; neighborhoods in places where there are several foreclosures on a block, boarded up, sprayed with graffiti and tags, being broken into and used by squatters, drug dealers or gangs. Nobody wants to move to a neighborhood with some gang signs spray painted on the boarded up house down the street. So that neighborhood basically is given up on. It starts to add up to a lot of neighborhoods, and whole communities. Anybody still living there can&#8217;t get out; nobody wants to buy their house.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin M</title>
		<link>http://weakonomics.com/2009/11/19/the-blue-collar-recession/comment-page-1/#comment-3246</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weakonomics.com/?p=3378#comment-3246</guid>
		<description>This was probably one of the best posts I&#039;ve read on Weakonomics.  Well analyzed, supported and argued.  Nice job!

As a white collar guy myself, I wondered the same things when I would drive by the mall or all the restaurants and still see them packed with people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was probably one of the best posts I&#8217;ve read on Weakonomics.  Well analyzed, supported and argued.  Nice job!</p>
<p>As a white collar guy myself, I wondered the same things when I would drive by the mall or all the restaurants and still see them packed with people.</p>
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